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Talk:Phantoon
heyyy, I thaght you cant post images with watermarks on em. Samusiscool2 14:18, 4 October 2008 (UTC) Why is Phantoon referred to as male?--AdmiralSakai 20:22, August 29, 2010 (UTC) Because I'm a doofus and forgot to change them to "its" when I wrote that edit. Also because .. well... Spoilers ahead! Didn't we used to have a Spoiler tag? I can't find it. :( Well, you've been warned. He is kind of a counterpart to Mother Brain in a way (if I'm understanding the barebones plot of the endgame, that is)], and since she's female I read him as male. Dazuro 20:50, August 29, 2010 (UTC) Hm. That's interesting.... I always thought of Phantoon as female due to its resemblence to M.B....--AdmiralSakai 21:13, August 29, 2010 (UTC) I wonder how Phantoon got onto the station...... is it the same individual Samus fought on Zebes? Or is this a different one altogether?? Perhaps the Mother Brain's consciousness (copied into the android body) somehow creates a spectral alter-ego? But then would the Bottle Ship Phantoon dissipate when MB was destroyed? Maybe it'll make sense once I actually get to the thing.....--AdmiralSakai 00:59, September 3, 2010 (UTC) Phantoon feeds off Mother Brain's brainwaves. MB, based off Mother Brain, used telepathy--i.e. brainwaves--to control things on the station. Thus, Phantoon was attracted to the station. Pretty cut and dry. Dazuro 01:06, September 3, 2010 (UTC) :Dazuro has my Seal of Explanation Approval. Extraxi 01:09, September 3, 2010 (UTC) :But, how did Phantoon survive Samus? Are there a lot of them floating in some spectral plane somewhere, and they come "out" to feed on any nearby Mother-Brain-like entity? I'm getting close to that part of the game, so maybe I'll get some more data... too little to go on as of yet...--AdmiralSakai 00:57, September 4, 2010 (UTC) I hadn't really thought of that, but now that you mention it... I mean, the original Phantoon is found on a crashed starship, and this one attacks a starship. Perhaps these things just wander space and attack ships that give off telephatic signals. In which case... the wrecked ship must have had a brain on it at one point? Perhaps that's the ship the Chozo took to get to Zebes to begin with? Dazuro 01:25, September 4, 2010 (UTC) :Whatever it is, Phantoon isn't alive. He's an ethereal being. He could be thwarted, and unless you have some form of containment unit, or some handy person or group of persons wearing similar outfits that you're gonna call when such a containment unit is needed, he can come back. Extraxi 02:27, September 4, 2010 (UTC) :Maybe Phantoon isn't actually attracted to MB's Brainwaves, maybe it has a fettish for abandoned ships, and the Mother Brain's Brainwaves caused it to join the space pirates in super. Metroid101 02:29, September 4, 2010 (UTC) ::I always thought of it as he just goes and haunts abandoned crafts sorta like how some ghosts act, like the ship in Super Metroid and then the Bottle Ship once no one is left on board besides the creatures. [[User:Jo_The_Marten|'Jo the Marten']]([[User_talk:Jo_The_Marten|'Talk Page']]) 02:31, September 4, 2010 (UTC) ::Anyways, Shouldn't we not speculate ssince talk Pages are meant for the article not the subject Metroid101 02:33, September 4, 2010 (UTC)\ ::Yeah, while all of this makes sense and is quite enlightening, it really doesn't belong in the article. Maybe I'll see something that passes for concrete evidence when I get to Phantoon in the game.--AdmiralSakai 14:08, September 4, 2010 (UTC) ::Just beat the game a few hours ago, and I think there might be something to Dek's "thwarting" theory: when Phantoon's eye is destroyed in Other M, the body doesn't explode the usual way but rather sort of deflates and falls bacwards into a kind of gleaming rift, before the screen is whited out by a flash of light. When the glittery stuff clears, Phantoon is nowhere to be seen. There is also a specific lack of the usual Other M "purple goo" death effect.--AdmiralSakai 22:56, September 4, 2010 (UTC) :::... Dek? D: Extraxi 00:36, September 5, 2010 (UTC) ::: For some reason I always get DekulltulaZM and Daruzo confused. They don't really resemble each other, but I can never get their names right..... I was referring to Daruzo above, even though I typed Dek'ulltula--AdmiralSakai 01:42, September 5, 2010 (UTC) ::::Dx I mean ''I said the thwarting thing. Extraxi 07:59, September 6, 2010 (UTC) ::Just Beat the game a few minutes ago and man did I get a doozy of a suprise when I say this guy show his ugly mug, Pretty fitting that he was the Final Boss because him bursting through the bridge and trying to literally rip Samus a part was just completely epic.Marx Wraith 02:01, September 5, 2010 (UTC) He apears in the bonus round and is thus an add in to the game so I doubt it should be taken too seriously, lol. Land Shark7896 15:15, September 5, 2010 (UTC)Land_Shark7896Land Shark7896 15:15, September 5, 2010 (UTC) I don't know why everyone says that after credits or not the completion rate isn't given until after him and the self destruct is even included. He IS the last boss fought so wouldn't that MEAN he's the final boss? Marx Wraith 18:26, September 6, 2010 (UTC) Yeah, Phantoon is the final boss in the game. Where credits go really isn't that relevant- Final Fantasy III rolls credits after the first boss: does that make the entire game an add-on? Phantoon is relevant to Other M.--AdmiralSakai 18:35, September 6, 2010 (UTC) Size comparisons I think we should do a full run down of all the Large bosses in a listing so we can stop arguing over their sizes.Marx Wraith 04:38, September 5, 2010 (UTC) They don't give you their sizes so its impossible :P but Phantoon is one of them! Metroid101 04:40, September 5, 2010 (UTC) Well that is the reason why we should really consider a meeting over the ones that are the biggest and list them from smallest to largest. Make things easier in the long run in so many words.Marx Wraith 04:53, September 5, 2010 (UTC) Heres one thing we all know: Kraid IS THE LARGEST!! Shadowblade777 05:05, September 5, 2010 (UTC) But how can we list them from smallest to biggest if we don't even know their size? If all we know, Kraid could still be the biggest and Quadraxis and Goyagma seem to be somewhat the same size when I compared them in First-Person view. Dr.Pancake 05:07, September 5, 2010 (UTC) That's why I say we have a serious listing brought down! Marx Wraith 05:08, September 5, 2010 (UTC) It is actually possible to derive the sizes of anything in a game, be it 2-d or 3-d, but it takes a lot of work and may require hacking or ripping things: we know the height of Samus in her power suit from Metroid II's manual (although I forget the actual value), and can thus either in game or through screenshots and image manipulation "stack" Samuses up to the height of the boss, and multiply that number by her height. Of course, this is rediculously difficult to do, but we pulled it off with Kraid and got some decent figures.--AdmiralSakai 14:21, September 5, 2010 (UTC) .....How the heck do you clone a ghost? Marx Wraith 03:51, September 26, 2010 (UTC) LOLZ I love that comment!! but we never said that its cloned 03:53, September 26, 2010 (UTC) Well someone seems to think its possible in the trivia section. Oh well,it would make sense....I think....maybe.... Marx Wraith 03:57, September 26, 2010 (UTC) Phantoon = The true dark prenscene of Other M Think about it, maybe Phantoon caused MB's turning into an evil b**** and everything. maybe Phantoon survived the Zebes explosion (its dead, of course it will survive) and took over the Bottle Ship knowing a possible Mother Brain was on it 04:06, September 26, 2010 (UTC) Get into good favor with Mother's reincarnation and cause all sorts of general mayhem and destruction from behind the scenes? Hmm,seems possible. Marx Wraith 04:08, September 26, 2010 (UTC) Phantoon may have stuck around the Bottle Ship simply to continue absorbing Mother Brain's intense brainwaves. Must be like cocaine for that ghost lol. (Latinlingo 04:55, October 29, 2010 (UTC)) Is Phantoon even a ghost in Other M? He seems too organic to be a ghost and he never went translucent in-game. Which brings me to my next question - Is he even officially a ghost or are we just assuming because, well, '''Phan-toon; Phantom and of course those very ghostly abilities of his. Any thoughts? If he is a ghost than I guess that's not bad either, why not? If the Chozos can do it, so can he... Even though he is a weird looking one and actually blew up despite the fact that he's dead. Dr.Pancake 01:47, September 29, 2010 (UTC) I havent fought Phantoon yet in Other M, but based on Super Metroid, he is no doubt a ghost. And when he dies in Super Metroid, he also explodes. I think the developpers of Other M just threw him in as a bonus boss with no real story, pure fanservice, so the differences in size and form and etc cant really be explained. I do know that his artwork in Other M show him with a ghostlike body. Btw, does Samus even recognize Phantoon in Other M? Does she say anything about him? ( 01:54, September 29, 2010 (UTC)) Nope, not a word. She never really said anything when she saw Nightmare again in Fusion, but that's probably because of lack of dialogue and Nightmare unexectedly returning in a prequel. And Phantoon can't be a bonus boss because he's not some guy who appears out of nowhere in some cave or whatever, he was actually part of the story when Samus went back to the Ship for Adam's helmet before it self-destructed. Dr.Pancake 02:02, September 29, 2010 (UTC) Define "ghost". Yes, I know, it sounds silly, but there are a lot of different creatures in the Metroid universe with what we would think of as "ghostly" abilities: the Hunter Ing can phase out of this dimension just like Phantoon did, the Chozo Ghosts (apparantly the gold standard for defining "ghost" in Metroid) can turn invivisble and move really fast, but never become invulnerable to damage the way Phantoon was... the X can seemingly phase as well (they flash and become invulnerable to absorbtion sometimes), while the Ruins Test can create a holographic representation of itself and move a ball of energy around the room. So Phantoon might be a "ghost" in either of her incarnations, but the meaning of "ghost" in context of Metroid is so increadibly vague as to lose its meaning.--AdmiralSakai 12:20, September 29, 2010 (UTC) "The soul of a dead person, a disembodied spirit imagined, usually as a vague, shadowy or evanescent form, as wandering among or haunting living 'persons'." (Dictionary.com - Ghost) Also, those abilities are not "ghostly." Intangibility is not the equivalent to being a ghost. Phasing in and out of existence is not ghostly, otherwise Kralees would be ghosts. Invisibility is not equivalent to being a ghost, or else the Shadow Pirates would be ghosts. As for the X parasites becoming invulnerable to being absorbed, that could likely be a game mechanic. And really, you refer Phantoon as a female? The fact that Phantoon is considered a ghost by the super metroid player's guide, Other M's artwork heavily hints at its supernatural nature, and can both turn translucent and invisible (the hunter ing, if i remember, can only do the former and not the latter) and dissipates, taking with him all those spooky skull floating Coverns, should confirm him as a ghost? ( 16:57, September 29, 2010 (UTC)) :If it wasn't a ghost, it would've been spaced. That big red eye would be frozen over in an instant. There's your proof that it's a ghost. Extraxi 17:22, September 29, 2010 (UTC) :First off, I always thought of Phantoon as female because she resembles Mother Brain to a considerable degree. A lot of people seem to refer to her as a male, but really, she's a floating head, so you can't exactly tell. And all Phantoon's ability to travel in space proves is that her hide is pretty durable and her eye has some sort of membrane over it or is otherwise dry. We don't know if Phantoon is really a spirit, some sort of energy being, or just a regular old organic with uncommon powers that let her float around and phase at will.--AdmiralSakai 19:41, September 29, 2010 (UTC) ::Why do you think I specified the eye? Eyes don't have hides. A silly little membrane that isn't an inch thick sheet of glass that doesn't have a built in heating system isn't gonna keep it from freezing over instantly. ::And, things don't have to be wet to freeze. Check out dry ice. Extraxi 20:17, September 29, 2010 (UTC) ::You know what I mean. No freezable stuff in it, some sort of wierd barrier, or it could be internally heated somehow. It's hard to imagine a terrestiral-like eye being like that, but then a lot of creatures in Metroid seem to defy conventional physiology.--AdmiralSakai 20:27, September 29, 2010 (UTC) :::An eye can't have an internal heating system without ruining Phantoon's own vision, as well as it can't be pumped into it because it's connected by a little string of nerves. Like I said, it proves its a ghost. Extraxi 01:10, September 30, 2010 (UTC) :::Yeah, the logistics of it are a little wonky, but then I've always wondered how the Ing, Kralee, and other Aetherian creatures harness the fantastic amounts of energy needed to access other dimensions, or for that matter how Metroids hover about in direct defiance of gravity. Thay membrane might be filled with helium or something, but that would require a really light Metroid, and I've always found it odd that it takes five or six shots from a hyper-advanced Chozo arm cannon to kill a Zoomer, when it looks like a comparably-sized terrestrial organism should be out of commission with a single regular ol' bullet to the head.... the point of all this was originally that creatures in Metroid, in general, do strange and seemingly impossible things all the time without being ghosts.--AdmiralSakai 01:30, September 30, 2010 (UTC) :::I think there's more to Phantoon then him being just a "ghost". Don't forget that he's a member of the Space Pirates, maybe Phan'toon might be a nickname for him (lol). IDK, his blue flames attack is one of the very typical ghostly moveset. Man, I miss the scan visor... This wouldn't be a problem if they just added it. Dr.Pancake 01:44, September 30, 2010 (UTC) The Ing get positive electrons for every regular electron Aether has. It's a mirror. And Metroids radiate a negative ion field that pushes them away from the core of a planet in a magnetic fashion! Also, the power beam is a concussive weapon. Extraxi 05:06, September 30, 2010 (UTC) How the hell does Positive Electrons get into this conversation? '''STOP '''making speculation/theories! Metroid101 19:36, September 30, 2010 (UTC) Phantoon, a Bioweapon? I find it hard to believe that Phantoon is a bioweapon, just because its attack pattern is different. This really is not the best way to determine if something or someone has been altered. It's like wondering why the Queen Metroid no longer stretches her neck forward to attack Samus, and then assuming that because this attack is not present, something is different about the Queen Metroid. (For all we know, that charge attack that the Queen Metroid does is the equivalent of the neck stretching.) The games are different from Metroid: Other M, so of course the attack patterns are going to be different. You don't see the plasma being fired from Phantoon circling around it. Metroid Fan 17:06, September 30, 2010 (UTC) It's highly unlikely that Phantoon was a bioweapon of any kind, mostly because there is no space large enough for her to fit inside in the explored area of the Bottle Ship. Plus, we don't even know this is the same creature Samus fought on Zebes, or a different indidivual altogether (in which case her differing attacks could just be the result of intra-species variation, age, combat damage, any number of things.)--AdmiralSakai 19:36, September 30, 2010 (UTC) SM Guide omg someone with the guide fill in reference 4. Full, exact quote and page! This is IMPORTANT! Obscure 06:25, October 28, 2010 (UTC) (I have officially made this page my bitch.) Other M Phantoon artwork reveals possible origin!!!! Has anyone noticed the tiny sketch work on the bottom left of Phantoon's Other M artwork? It would seem that Other M Phantoon is created through the souls of deceased bioforms killed by Samus! For those who have a hard time understanding the drawing, it portrays several dead creatures in front of Samus, with smoke and craters surrounding them it seems (suggesting she just killed them). These corpses have halos on top of them (confirming their dead status) and have some sort of wavy energy leaving their bodies, going higher above them and seemingly concentrating into a single point, revealing a slightly whole/formed Phantoon! However, this may merely suggest that Phantoon is absorbing their souls, but based on Super Metroid, it doesn't seem to be the case since said game states that he only feeds on electrical power sources. And yes, this artwork was drawn before the final version of the game, meaning that it is unfortunately no longer canon, but this revelation should definitely be added to the trivia section. Comments? Objections? (Latinlingo 04:52, October 29, 2010 (UTC)) :There are no dead creatures in front of Samus. On the ground is Phantoon, exhausted, while a Rage Hand is above her, ready to attack. And something that looks like a bunny underneath it. Obscure 05:04, October 29, 2010 (UTC) :AWW, dang it. Looks like I need to get my eyes checked. Its funny though how Phantoon, being a ghost, has a halo on top of its ''dead corpse. (Latinlingo 05:16, October 29, 2010 (UTC)) :I have a friend of a friend who is translating the concept art from Japanese into English. I can ask them to do Phantoon first, and see what the captions on that picture say.--AdmiralSakai 11:40, October 29, 2010 (UTC) :Please do so AdmiralSakai! It might give us some nice insight.(Latinlingo 16:52, October 29, 2010 (UTC)) About the latest changes in the article In response to Extraxi's latest request, I want to inform him that I'm doing everything that needs to be done in order to improve this article. Telling me not to change every little continuity that he makes is simply unreasonable when there is false information and fanon and etc on the article. Allow me to present a few examples: 1) All enemies damaging Samus on contact is absolutely false. Remember Kraid? Shaktool? Tatori (she can attack you, making her a potential enemy)? Kago? They dont hurt you simply by touching you. 2)Why are you removing the Spin Jump Attack link and replacing it with a non-linked Charge attack? I'm trying to let readers get more info. 3)Me replacing toothy mouth with razor-sharp mouth is simply my attempt at making this article more professional. 4)Why are you removing the info that states Phantoon is the ghost of the wrecked ship? And yes, Phantoon only inhabits out of commission ships. 5) When does it ever say that Phantoon is dominating the coverns? Guide suggests otherwise, but sure, it does seem that he controls them since coverns disappear when he dies, but it also seems that the light that returns to the ship scared them off too. Both should be mentioned. And is there any info that confirms Phantoon is bigger due to the Bottle Ship's energy? You're trying to state it as fact. Officially, it is unknown why he changed, but your theory of the Bottle Ship's energy or the federation having some sort of role in this are plausible theories that belong in the trivia. :Mystery Person, you undid the fact he has teeth and said instead his mouth is razor sharp. As well as a whole bunch of other minor edits you undid when undoing what I did again. Just fix the article instead of undoing the entire thing next time. Obscure 07:24, October 29, 2010 (UTC) :So in my recent changes, i removed the parasitic category, cause for a creature to be considered a parasite, it needs an organic host and Phantoon only eats raw energy. Also, Phantoon only inhabits abandoned ships, based on evidence from Super Metroid and Other M. It only appeared in Other M once the people responsible for maintaining the ship had abandoned it (no more MB, Madeline, Adam's squad). Creatures and Space Pirates dont count, as seen in the Wrecked Ship, which contained various animals and Kihunters despite Phantoon being there.(Latinlingo 18:33, October 29, 2010 (UTC)) Back to being retarded about cloning. It took a long time explaining to everyone how Ridley was cloned. Why? I don't know. How the hell does someone think Ridley actually regenerated, after exploding and then the planet he was on exploding, onto a space station lightyears away without eating anything, which is how his regeneration works, as something completely different? That's the real mystery. But I digress. I shall now explain, in steps, how anyone who thinks Phantoon is there by GF is a complete and utter moron: #Phantoon is a fucking ghost. You can't clone a ghost, idiots! #GF is not known for their magic ability to summon ghosts. #Dumbledore is not in the Metroid universe. #Think this Phantoon is still a clone of when Phantoon was alive? Try explaining why it had a white explosion and giant chunks of Phantoon weren't suddenly bombarding the ship! #Phantoon is still a fucking ghost. So no. The GF is NOT responsible for Phantoon's return, and the fact I even have to explain it is apalling. Obscure 20:38, October 29, 2010 (UTC) :You're assuming Phantoon is a conventional ghost and not in fact a "mortal" creature with the ability to phase partly out of regular space. The Hunter Ing were able to do something similar, as were the Kralee. If it is in fact an organic creature that possesses DNA, it could concievably be cloned. Not likely, yes, but very possible.--AdmiralSakai 20:55, October 29, 2010 (UTC) ::Already covered that in step 4. Also, Phantoon is referred to as a ghost when he can become intangible, but Ing and Kralee were not. Obscure 21:08, October 29, 2010 (UTC) :Phantoon is a ghost, meaning GONE! No bones, no skin, no DNA ... Can't be cloned -___- Metroid101 21:34, October 29, 2010 (UTC) ::It does not look like an explosion to me so much as Phantoon falling backwards into a sort of rift.--AdmiralSakai 21:49, October 29, 2010 (UTC) :::That's what I thought, it was more like an implosion of energy and his entire being evaporating. I honestly think that Phantoon is a ghost who can be defeated but not killed entirely as he will just not have the power left to attack anyone with for a good deal of time afterwards. Marx Wraith 22:47, October 29, 2010 (UTC) ::Not a rift. Rifts don't go bang. Not an implosion, light wouldn't have been bursting outwards from it. But anyway, that's it for that theory. Don't put 'GF brought back Phantoon with the help of Dumbledore' on the page, even in Trivia. Dumbledore is dead. Obscure 02:34, October 30, 2010 (UTC) :::I brought this up ages ago as Phantoon is a ghost, you can't clone a ghost.....so I suppose that lead to people trying to prove he WASN'T a ghost to explain how they could have cloned him.....what a nutty world we live in Hahaha!c XD Marx Wraith 03:45, October 30, 2010 (UTC) ::::I love you. I just lost faith in all the editors earlier today and I needed that badly. Obscure 04:20, October 30, 2010 (UTC) :::Hahahaha! I' ll take that as a compliment.'' =) Marx Wraith 04:48, October 30, 2010 (UTC)'' To make things clear, I never said anything about the Federation cloning ANYTHING. I only mentioned that the Federation may have had some sort of role in its reappearance, nothing more. Since every creature in Other M were captured, created, or linked with the Federation, it was only logical to assume the Federation had something to do with Phantoon's presence in/near the Bottle Ship as well. Its funny to see how Extraxi attempts to put explanations and logic as he does. You have to remember, ghosts in the Metroid universe (including Prime) can be shot at. That alone breaks all established mythos on ghosts! In fact, '''Coverns can be frozen in Super Metroid. Extraxi's theory on the ship's energy being responsible for increasing a ghost's size is just as nonsense! But heck, his theory is actually linked with mine: the Federation created the bottle ship, and Phantoon, according to his idea, was able to return/grow with it, in other words, the Federation DID play a role in Phantoon's new appearance! Perhaps the Federation purposely recreated//fed/healed Phantoon with particles of energy without ever bringing up the idea of clones. But since Extraxi really doesnt want to allow fanon here, then i shall be removing his theory as well, since NOTHING proves that energy from ships made him grow and stuff. End of story. And I dont know what was his point with Dumbledore.....but if you want to bring up your magical themes and stuff, go bring that to Thardus' article once in a while, a being made up of ROCKS created by Space Pirates. (Latinlingo 05:01, October 30, 2010 (UTC)) :So, you're saying that the weapons used by Ghostbusters have similar properties to Samus' Power Beam... I see where you're coming from on that. Obscure 01:07, October 31, 2010 (UTC) Also, HURP DERP small phantoon, dead ship. giant phantoon, alive ship. huuurp deeeerp ::Wrecked Ship is not as dead as you would think, since it had energy and power running through its complex before and after Phantoon appeared despite having crashed. In fact, if Phantoon was actually absorbing energy from the Bottle Ship, the station would be just like the Wrecked Ship during Phantoon's reign: no doors functioning, no light/electricity running through the station, etc. That does not happen. So, once again, your theory regarding the ship increasing Phantoon's size is simply silly. (Latinlingo 01:15, October 31, 2010 (UTC)) :A number of things: :#I concur that it makes sense for Phantoon to be larger since the Bottle Ship is larger. Reasonable extrapolation and all that. It's possible Phantoon has not powered down the Bottle Ship because it has more than enough energy- the creature sure looks bloated when you fight it, maybe there's a maximum amount of energy it needs. :#I never thought Phantoon was a ghost in the conventional sense. I've been able to come up with a reasonable scientific or fringe-scientific explanation for every other so-called "supernatural" element in Metroid, and I am not about to stop now. If it's not a ghost, then you could probably clone it biologically. My understanding of the wiki policy on stuff like this is that we should include all reasonable explanations of an inconsistancy. :#If you want to purge the speculation, look at that thing about the "ball" part of Phantoon being a heart. At least be consistant. :#Dumbledore???? DUMBLEDORE????? :#--AdmiralSakai 01:22, October 31, 2010 (UTC) ::I am sick of you 3 making FUCKING THEORIES!! Phantoon is a ghost... GHOST!! Leave it at that and just move on!!! He grew in size to make the battle more epic, not eating energy or some stupid shit. It was an artistic change. Metroid101 01:26, October 31, 2010 (UTC) :I thank you AdmiralSakai. You understand the idea of allowing all possible and logical explanations, unlike some immature people. And yes..... i also dont know why Dumbledore was brought up...... If the wiki policy actually allows reasonable explanations for inconsistancies, then I shall add both mine and Extraxi's theories soon. Oh and Metroid101, as I mentioned before, ghosts in Metroid arent your traditional ghosts, I mean hey, they can be frozen. (Latinlingo 01:33, October 31, 2010 (UTC)) Wait, wait wait wait. You actually think that the Bottle Ship produces as much energy as the Wrecked Ship, Latin? Don't start trolling, bro, it ain't cool. Obscure 01:45, October 31, 2010 (UTC) Also, you've yet to explain how it's possible, Latin, like an immature person. :3 :Oh, also, Sakai. The ball part isn't speculation. His head really is beating like a heart. You can see it and hear it! Hell, I'll even youtube it right now! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CM9FSZ9mm-I Obscure 01:48, October 31, 2010 (UTC) Also, Sakai, your 1. is dead on. Sigh, says the person who brought up Dumbledore and..... i'm not even going to bring up your unusual and immature behavior seen here and in many, MANY other pages. And I know that even if i went the length to give you explanations behind my ideas, you will always respond in a rude and inappropriate manner (refer to other pages). This discussion is settled, and you and I will have our theories back in Phantoon's article quite soon Extraxi. :) (Latinlingo 01:57, October 31, 2010 (UTC)) :Uhuh... Trolling, off-topic remarks and personal attacks, and the admittance of no actual explanation of how Phantoon got there with the GF's help specifically but the continued complaining that it should be there. Who's the immature one? Obscure 02:05, October 31, 2010 (UTC) ::I never said that the head thing was unreasonable speculation. I just think it is not more or less reasonable than the large size theory or the cloning theory. My point was that there seemed to be an inconsistant application of policy.--AdmiralSakai 02:07, October 31, 2010 (UTC) :::Well now you're just confusing me. I mean, you see the head pulsate, and you know Phantoon absorbs energy from a whole bunch of references. But you don't see him as a baby running around eating Lyle... Obscure 02:11, October 31, 2010 (UTC) OMFG JUST STOP!! Its a game, Things change, DEAL WITH IT!! Metroid101 02:12, October 31, 2010 (UTC) :He won't. He doesn't understand "So and so is this because everything else in here and there is" is not a valid argument. Obscure 02:19, October 31, 2010 (UTC) You know what? Fine. You win. Have your little temper tantrum and keep undoing a proper page until you get your way and the page locked. Make personal attacks on people explaining how something doesn't work, and then just go 'nuh uh!' and put in something completely unreferenced, unexplained, and presented in the most childish manner possible. Congratulations, you win an internet fight by proving you can be wrong but whine about it a lot more until you win. Obscure 02:50, October 31, 2010 (UTC) What does Dumbledore have to do with it? Ghosts in Harry Potter? Get real. 07:08, August 3, 2011 (UTC) Two Phantoons? How do we know that it is the same phantoon from Super Metroid that shows up in Other M? Quicksaver007 11:54, November 1, 2010 (UTC) Good question.--AdmiralSakai 12:29, November 1, 2010 (UTC I know this is speculation, but looking at phantoon from Other M compared to Super Metroid, there are many obvious differences. Size and coloring are the two biggest ones I see. Doesn't the one from Super Metroid look like a pre-adolescent form compared to the one from Other M? And, again specualtion, but as far as we know, Phantoon can only phase into two spectrums, the visible one and the one the X-Ray Scope sees in, and, since you can't see Phantoon after you defeat him in Super Metroid, I believe that he was defeated. I say all this to bring it to this point. Either Phantoon can phase into a third spectrum and escaped (though there is no proof of that, even though it is possible), or the Phantoon in Other M is a different one, possible the mother of the Phantoon in Super Metroid wanting revenge (again, no proof, but possible). What are everyone's opinion on this? Quicksaver007 17:44, November 1, 2010 (UTC) It's strange, but the mother thing actually makes a surprising amount of sense in the Other M plot. I mean, you've got Samus trying to kill Mother Brain for killing the Metroid that thought she was its mother, then dealing with the guilt of contributing to that Metroid's demise, THEN you have MB (the "mother" of the bioweapons on the station) trying to bring the Human scientists to justice for their experiments, and Dr. Bergman dealing with the death of her creation and testifying against the Federation for causing that death. Having Phantoon, Sr. show up to whomp Samus would certainly fit into that recurring theme.--AdmiralSakai 18:14, November 1, 2010 (UTC) Someone mentioned on this talk page about a possible realm where multiple Phantoons exist. Whether or not Other M Phantoon is a different one altogether, it seems to be hell-bent on killing Samus. Since MB is gone, this Phantoon is acting on its own, and confirms that it has some connection to Super Metroid Phantoon (either its the same, or its related to the original). Why couldn't Sakamoto gives us a well-detailed cutscene where this mystery is explained? Other M is a heavily story-based game, and yet it neglects to explain Phantoon's presence. (Latinlingo 19:50, November 1, 2010 (UTC)) There are several "gaps" in Other M that are directly explained, including why MB told Samus the truth about Sector Zero, why the real Dr. Bergman survived the android's rampage, and who the Deleter was. Most of them can be inferred, however, and there is no information that allows us to deduce what was up with Phantoon.--AdmiralSakai 19:56, November 1, 2010 (UTC) About Sector Zero, you're talking about the fact that MB wanted to kill Samus by sending her to her likely death by unfreezable Metroids? Back to Phantoon, I think that the fact that it has the same name as the original suggests it is the same being. If you look at Kraid, it is the same Kraid no matter which game it is in. Same goes for Mother Brain. In Ridley's case, it was speculated for a long time that Samus wasnt always fighting the same Ridley until Prime Trilogy's artbooklet and Other M stated it was the same being all the time. Has there been any character/creature that had a proper name, but wasnt necessarely the same individual every time?(Latinlingo 20:03, November 1, 2010 (UTC)) I can think of three, but they are not 100% different individuals. The first is Mother Brain. It was the same individual in a different body in Metroid/Metroid Zero Mission and Super Metroid. Then is Metroid Prime/Dark Samus. I'm not sure, but I don't think there is any proof either way whether if Metroid Prime/Dark Samus remembers Samus after it/she is destroyed, thus being different. Finally is one that is obviously two different creatures with the same name since it blows up, and that is Nightmare. While it is exactly the same in both Other M and Fusion, Nightmare is destroyed completely in Other M (its face and helmet explodes), and then returns in Fusion. While I understand that its a man-made robotic Bio-weapon and could be remade, I think it quallifies for your question. 20:53, November 1, 2010 (UTC)]] Artistic Change, go look it up -___- and please, accept the truth and stop bickering Metroid101 20:48, November 1, 2010 (UTC) Wait...What? We're bickering? I'm sorry...I was just discussing stuff...I'll drop it if you say so, Administrator Quicksaver007 20:53, November 1, 2010 (UTC) Not you, your fine, its Latinlingo and AdmiralSakarai. They are responsible for Phantoon being blocked from editing Metroid101 20:55, November 1, 2010 (UTC) OMG LOL I am not an admin! Metroid101 21:24, November 1, 2010 (UTC) You seem to be forgetting a certain individual, Metroid101, and AdmiralSakarai did nothing to contribute the block. And i'm as surprised as Quicksaver007 to the fact that you consider this as bickering. (Latinlingo 21:33, November 1, 2010 (UTC)) LOL Sorry Metroid 101. You edit so much and so often, I thought you were an admin. Guess it would have helped if I looked. My bad! Quicksaver007 21:39, November 1, 2010 (UTC) Good point about the names, Latin. That would indicate she is the same creature Samus fought on Zebes. (Pointedly ignoring nascent flame war.)--AdmiralSakai 21:54, November 1, 2010 (UTC) Just a random idea of mine, if I was part of the team developping Zero Mission, I would have made the final boss of the Pirate Mother Ship to be the living form of Phantoon (in other words, alive and not a ghost), then people who played Super Metroid would realize that Samus later on defeats its spirit and would suggest the Wrecked Ship to be the MotherShip. Something that could have simplified matters I think. Oh well. (Latinlingo 22:21, November 1, 2010 (UTC)) Actually, Yoshio Sakamoto went on record as saying that the two ships are not the same thing (and were never intended to be). Thus, a live Phantoon on the mother ship would have made very little sense.--AdmiralSakai 23:36, November 1, 2010 (UTC) Look guys, there has not been any concrete evidence to confirm the "two Phantoons" theory as of now. Until we are actually given such information, Phantoon is Phantoon and that's all. The guy didn't blow up in Super Metroid, but rather dissipated, which leaves him the ability to regroup again and appear for a second time in Other M. It is a ghost after all. And Metroid101 seems right about the artitisc change in Phantoon; when you're drawing fantasy, you can make it however you want it to be regardless of how it originally was. [[User:The Exterminator|''Th''e Ext''er''minator]] {ADMIN} (talk • • • • ) 00:57, November 2, 2010 (UTC) Attention administrator(s) "Phantoon cannot be fought on Metroid: Other M 's Hard Mode, as the game ends after the Queen Metroid is destroyed." I would like an admin to change that point to say this: "Phantoon cannot be fought on Metroid: Other M 's Hard Mode, as the game ends after the Queen Metroid is destroyed. This is because the fight, with increased damage to Samus and increased health to Phantoon as well as attack power would be impossible to complete successfully." --[[User:RoyboyX|''R''oy''b''oy'']][[User talk:RoyboyX|''X]] 20:15, November 6, 2010 (UTC) :You sure about that? Because I was able to defeat Phantoon without taking a single hit on my first (maybe second) try. [[User:The Exterminator|''Th''e Ext''er''minator]] {ADMIN} (talk • • • • ) 20:43, November 6, 2010 (UTC) :If you button mash the dpad, you should be able to sense-dodge pretty much anything in the game. If im not mistaken, only the Queen's flame blast is unavoidable with the dpad. Does Phantoon have any undodgeable attacks? (I havent reached the boss yet) (Latinlingo 04:27, November 7, 2010 (UTC)) : :Hmm, not so much undodgeable, but for sure hard to dodge if you aren't familiar with his attacks in this game. Marx Wraith 05:01, November 7, 2010 (UTC) New theory If this theory has already been submited, tell me. I think Other m's Phantoon is an reincarnation of MB because after MB is dead the creatures act like when they where still controled by her and posibily seeks her revenge by making the bottle ship explode with Samus inside. 09:54, February 23, 2011 (UTC) However, this does not explain how the original Super Metroid Phantoon arose- the original Mother Brain was still alive at the time. "My name is [[User:AdmiralSakai|'AdmiralSakai']], and I approve this message." 13:04, February 23, 2011 (UTC) I also think there are two different Phantoons if not more. They could be reincarnations of evil beings. The one from Super Metroid may be a space pirate leader and enven if this is crazy it can be Gorea or even Dark Samus or Phaaze (its sentient, isn't it?) 18:05, February 28, 2011 (UTC) ..........What? First of all, its already been discussed whether or not there are more than one Phantoon (look into this talk page), and Phantoon is already established as a Pirate leader. But the ghost being Gorea, Dark Samus or Phaaze? That's abit much. (Latinlingo 18:59, March 2, 2011 (UTC)) Um...For Gorea, Dark Samus and Phaaze I putted a bit of joke on it... Really, I think Super Metroid's Phantoon is an ancien space pirate leader or, if the ship was chozo, a chozo from the ship that was manipulated by Mother Brain. 17:52, March 7, 2011 (UTC) Lethal Strike -> Overblast I don't think the point-blank shot on Phantoon's Eye is counted as a Lethal Strike. The game mechanic for LS automatically shoots. OB does not. Phantoon actually threw me off his eye when I went to shoot it. Shadowblade777 04:39, May 17, 2011 (UTC) I wouldn't know. My father hates me because I'm "obsessed" with Metroid, so he won't buy Other M for me. I'm planning on getting Prime Hunters and Prime 2, however, on the Metroid series's ANNIVERSARY. Then, so it won't look suspicious, a Sonic game.... 21:52, August 3, 2011 (UTC) Another possibility If I recall correctly , phantoon is attracted to brainwaves no? He was sapping the wrecked ship of the small amount of energy it had and tapped into motherbrain's brain-wave patterns. After samus beat it , instead of blowing up or dying , it twisted around and dissappeared. If it is indeed a ghost , it might have been sent to another plane of existence that couldn't be detected by the x-ray module. In other-m , it wasn't noticed or even heard from until MB raged and emitted extreme amounts of her psychic powers near the end. It is possible that Phantoon didn't notice her first psychic raging or that it had and started to feed on the energies of the ship until it was strong enough to control the other creatures. Either way , I think it was two days later that Samus returned to the ship, so Phantoon had all of it's time. Also , I'm pretty sure that the energy generators of the ship produced much more energy then Phantoon could absorb and , therefore , could be an explanation as to why the station never shut down due to energy shortage.Don't forget that the wrecked ship was very tiny , very old , and was barely producing any energy at all since , even when phantoon is destroyed , it barely evenlights up. When it dies , that huge flash could could be the energy that it stored in it's brain/heart (it's head for idiots who didn't figure that out yet.) being released all at once. It might have blown because Samus weakened it too much for it to be able to control the enormous quantities of energy it absorbed and was absorbing.Bladiumdragon 09:55, August 3, 2011 (UTC) Similarities to Darklings While this may just be me, I noticed some similarities with the "new" Phantoon and with the Darklings from Metroid Prime 2: Echoes. While I'm sure that their is likely no in-universe connection between the two, I did notice the following, though they're all likely coincidences: - Development of dark pigmentation like that of darklings, as well as green pigments, like in the Bomb Guardian. - More threatening appearance, like what happens to most darklings. - Ability to create portals, especially with Phantoon's seemingly darkness-based ones. - Finally, both are related to dimensions (ing inhabit an alternate dimension, Phantoon is described as being multi-dimensional in concept art) Whether or not Phantoon's new appearance may be a reference to the Ing, I just thought that these similarities were worth noting. Dark Ridley 03:31, August 9, 2011 (UTC) Size Just something I noticed while messing around with the models in Blender... http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/6691/sizes.png Sorry about the glitchy Phantoon but his eyestalk etc are malleable and don't render properly. The size remains unchanged, however. I think maybe we can finally put to rest that old debate about who the largest boss in the series is... pretty sure no one comes close to that besides Quadraxis (working on getting his render working to test). Keep in mind that pirates are slightly taller than Samus already (I just didn't have a Samus model handy for scale). Maybe this isn't worth noting in the article, but I thought it was interesting enough to share regardless. Dazuro 00:59, March 22, 2012 (UTC) New Information Regarding Phantoon This has probably been known for quite some time, but all the theories going on here about whether or not there is a species of Phantoons, or if it's the same Phantoon can be cleared up, based on the Japanese Super Metroid manual on page 40. At Metroid Database, CapCom translated the part about Phantoon, which reads: "Phantoon: Boss of the Wrecked Ship. Mother Brain's consciousness given substance. The evil thought-waves surrounding her soul have turned into an evil spirit that has suspended the ship's operations." It reminds me of the curse of Demise in The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword, where Ganondorf is the "incarnation of Demise's hatred". Except, in this case, Phantoon in Super Metroid was Mother Brain's "consciousness given substance", whereas Phantoon in Metroid: Other M is MB's consciousness given substance. I notice the Official Information isn't presented in the Phantoon article in the same way as it is in the Ridley article. I was thinking about making a few changes here and there because of this information, but I didn't want to do anything without first checking what others thought. Proto-Mind 18:22, July 1, 2012 (UTC) Can you post a link here to this manual (preferably translated version)? I'd like to see this for myself before I figure out what to do with it. "My name is [[User:AdmiralSakai|'AdmiralSakai']], and you should really read my book." 00:47, July 2, 2012 (UTC) :I'm pretty sure this was retconned in the Other M concept art. The MarioGalaxy2433g5 {talk/ } 01:18, July 2, 2012 (UTC) The manual is in Japanese. I don't have an English translation of it, but CapCom is one of the people who helped translate the Metroid manga at Metroid Database, as well as the Samus & Joey and the Art Gallery in Metroid: Other M. Here's the Japanese version, but not an English translation of that version. http://www.metroid-database.com/sm/smj_manual.pdf Also, I don't see how any of that is retconned by Metroid: Other M. Proto-Mind 01:34, July 2, 2012 (UTC) :The Other M concept art states Phantoon was something else. The MarioGalaxy2433g5 {talk/ } 01:44, July 2, 2012 (UTC) "Ghost-like monster that was hidden on the spaceship the Ancient Chozo used to come to Zebes. It exists as both a multidimensional corporeal body and an astral body." It doesn't appear to me. Proto-Mind 04:01, July 2, 2012 (UTC) The implications of the two texts contradict each other, certainly, but while the syntax of the Other M art hints that Phantoon was brought to Zebes on the ship with the Chozo, taken literally it just says that she was hidden on the ship at some point ''(which could have been when we found her in Super Metroid). I see no reason why Phantoon can't be both multidimensional in nature ''and a personification/appendage of Mother Brain. (And it does go a long way to explaining her otherwise completely superfluous presence on the Bottle Ship. -- "My name is [[User:AdmiralSakai|'AdmiralSakai']], and you should really read my book." 13:37, July 2, 2012 (UTC) :I realized that after I looked at it. I just remembered something was explained about Phantoon in the concept art. The MarioGalaxy2433g5 {talk/ } 15:11, July 2, 2012 (UTC) I didn't read it as if Phantoon was on the spaceship while the Chozo were going to Zebes. I suppose that's another interpretation. Anyway, MB was based on Mother Brain's AI, so it wouldn't be any surprise to see Phantoon appear again. Proto-Mind 15:45, July 2, 2012 (UTC) Naming? Does anyone know where Phantoon got it's name? Seems to me it's a pun on "Phantom" and "Balloon" as it's upper body looks like a Balloon... GreenKirby213 (Talk) 18:34, May 1, 2013 (UTC) MoM Maybe he's the reason for so many of the disfunctional systems on board. It makes sense. The bottle ship is a massive vessel with plenty of energy to feed from. Sylux X 23:12, June 24, 2013 (UTC) Hang on... Phantoon looks like a Zazabi! Doesn't it? They both have one eye, a bottom side "mouth" with teeth-claws, they have tentacle trendrils, they both float to some degree as well. What if Zazabis eventually become phantoons after a long time maturing or something? Keep in mind this is merely an observation and there is no concrete evidence they are related in any way. Food for thought! Ad infinitum et ultra! (talk) 12:50, September 12, 2015 (UTC) You can't clone a ghost? Just something I thought of after reading the whole ghosts can't be cloned escapade, And yes I do believe Phantoon just randomely appeared. But couldn't you use ectoplasm to clone it? I may be wrong as I'm not a clone specializing ghostbuster, but I'm pretty sure ectoplasm can be used to clone ghosts.Pikmin theories (talk) 00:16, August 28, 2016 (UTC) : I'm not sure how ectoplasm even works in the first place, would this matter even have cellular or genetic material of some kind in it at all? If Phantoon even has ectoplasm to leave behind. Ad infinitum et ultra! (talk) 00:51, August 28, 2016 (UTC)